Is Linux Splitting into Two Factions?

[Ariel22]

With the recent news of several Linux vendors entering into partnership agreements with Microsoft (Novell, Linspire, Xandros), there has been much debate recently about two factions of Linux forming. Saying that Linux is going to be torn in two sides makes for good press and lively debates, but this is certainly nothing new for Linux.

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[jrusso2]

"Some are claiming anti-Microsoft sentiment in regards to our recent announcement, but I don't see them licensing or respecting the IP from many others, not just Microsoft. That's not how I define the "moral high ground."

Kevin this is the problem. Microsoft has not shown what anyone is violating. How can anyone be expected to respect Microsofts IP if they refuse to show what is being violated?

I am sure as soon as they can show what is being violated efforts will be made to end that.

The split is occuring because you and the other two have given in to Microsofts demands without even knowing what is violated.

This violates the spirit of free software and it what would cause the split. Now some Linux users are supposodly protected even though they are using free software that everyone should be protected.

Not just your users.

[dpatterson]

I have no doubt in my mind that there are clear and valid business reasons for this partnership. The part that I have a hard time dealing with is that all these years of legal battles between Microsoft and Lindows/Linspire are for naught. I agree that there must come a time when both sides have to realize that it might be better to work together but I cannot help but question Microsoft's motivation. Linspire has much to gain from this relationship as you have clearly detailed but those gains must come with a price. In truth what does a near monopoly have to gain by negotiating partnerships with it's competitors who maintain a market share that can be measured in single digit percentiles?

The fact that I had to rescue my Linspire newsletter from my Microsoft Outlook junkmail box must tell us something.

[Borkus]

Originally Posted by jrusso2

The split is occuring because you and the other two have given in to Microsofts demands without even knowing what is violated.

This violates the spirit of free software and its what would cause the split. Now some Linux users are supposodly protected even though they are using free software that everyone should be protected.
Not just your users.

jrusso, while it's built on open-source, Linspire is not free. And no, Linspire hasn't "given in." Did Linspire "give in" when they last agreed & took Microsoft to the bank for $20 mil? MS had no case that would stand in a court of law then, and they have no patent case now and we all know it. But why not use the opportunity to get what you want from them? I applaud Kevin for the deal. It's good for linux and no, I don't see it causing a split. At the end of the day Linspire is still linux, not Micro-linux, still open-source, and I can still pop the hood & fiddle. If I install Quicktime to watch a vid does that make me an Apple supporter? No, I'm free to hate 'em. And i can hate the thieving Microshaft as much as anyone with LINSPIRE as my OS!

[dankegel]

It's true that codecs are a big issue on Linux.
There seem to be three kinds of responses to this problem:

1. Bundle old freely downloadable versions of the codecs
into an easy to download package, e.g. the K-Lite Codec Pack,
http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/#klmcodec
Sadly, some of the codecs, although freely downloadable from the
original vendors, have EULAs that prohibit such redistribution.

2. License current versions of codecs, and offer them for sale on Linux, e.g.
http://www.fluendo.com/

3. Avoid proprietary codecs that require patents, and create new, free codecs.
e.g.http://www.xiph.org, http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/dirac

#1 is probably legally impractical. #3 is a pie-in-the-sky approach, just like
Linux and Wine were originally, and they (like mp3) have the additional
problem/feature of not supporting copy protection, which makes large
media companies skittish about offering content. Pragmatic US-based
Linux vendors might well consider option #2.

But option #2 comes in two flavors:
a) Have a special company (e.g. Fluendo) do all the dealing with
the codec vendors.
b) Have the Linux vendors make direct deals with the codec vendors.

Linspire chose option b, at least for Windows Media Format.
The problem with this option is that it comes with strings attached,
some in the form of being seen as aiding and abetting Microsoft's
FUD campaign against Linux, some in the form of being simply
seen as being financially tied to Microsoft, who is known to be no
friend of Linux.

That said, I have qualms about firing up the flamethrower and
publicly denouncing those Linux vendors who have signed on
the dotted line with Microsoft, if only because such discord
in the Linux community plays into Microsoft's hands.

So, my fellow Linux enthusiasts, let our disapproval with such
deals be shown with quiet dignity, and let us
resolve to redouble our efforts to make Linux the best, the
most truly free desktop/server/embedded platform in the world.

[chakkaradeep]

No comments until Linspire 6 gets released and people really make use of this deal

[DrHu]

Originally Posted by dankegel

It's true that codecs are a big issue on Linux.
There seem to be three kinds of responses to this problem:

1. Bundle old freely downloadable versions of the codecs into an easy to download package, e.g. the K-Lite Codec Pack, http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/#klmcodec
Sadly, some of the codecs, although freely downloadable from the
original vendors, have EULAs that prohibit such redistribution.

2. License current versions of codecs, and offer them for sale on Linux, e.g.
http://www.fluendo.com/

3. Avoid proprietary codecs that require patents, and create new, free codecs.
e.g.http://www.xiph.org, http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/dirac

I think # 2 and #3 are solutions, that should be available to anyone who wants to attack microsoft in court for non-interoperability
--yes they can develop proprietry codecs, but they should be forced to allow other OS (MAC or Linux) to connect and use them, without requiring a license fee or they should be forced to allow what they say they want actual interoperability between windows and linux, and without trying to bankrupt Linux vendors into a proprietry straightjacket, like their nonsense about 235 patents are violated by linux..
--just like realplayer does or adobe acrobat. There is no justifiable reason to demand that 1% of the desktops in the world pay for a monopolist position that controls 95-99% of the desktops, and be denied simple run only media players
unless they are so frightened by the possibility that if Linux can run anything microsoft provides, that their empire is doomed. Have they forgotton that they can use their default position of FUD to muddy the waters; as they have so far been successful in that with ODF compliance for ms office suites ??

Maybe if we see some real odf support and a stronger EU response to MS attempts to strangle innovation and force everyone to keep using office suites and paying through the nose for that privilege
--then we will know that the worm has turned

That said, I have qualms about firing up the flamethrower and
publicly denouncing those Linux vendors who have signed on the dotted line with Microsoft, if only because such discord
in the Linux community plays into Microsoft's hands

I am not sure if it does play into their hands, after all their level of FUD against Linux has been ongoing since they recognized the threat that free is cheaper than (windows, not free) despite their various attempts to distort ROI
--and nobody stopped buying MS windows due to their negative campaigning, just like MAC now does with PC..

So I think being negative about MS does nothing to hurt linux, despite the idea that it is bad business practice
--if anyone remembers; IBM never mentioned the competition when they were a monopoly, whereas MS from the beginning has always tried to defeat their competitors (enemies), by showing comparisons in their favour (whether real or fake, and usually fake), no matter, once out a lie can become a fact.
sort of the basis for urban legends
--many examples exist..

[astromech]

Moral high ground??? While I respect Linspire's idea of offering more choice than other O/S's I can't help but think about everything MS has done to stifle consumer choice in the marketplace and has even been taken to court for having an illegal monopoly .How does dealing with rotten companies like this place Linspire management on "high moral ground" ? Legality and ethics are very often two different things.

[RevMike]

'Very Simple
Linspire's strategy has been a very simple one...build a Linux distribution with more capabilities for desktop computing than any other distro.'

Thanks Kevin - That's why I bought Linspire, that's why I'm waiting eagerly for LS 6.0

Mike

[northwolf]

You know, your comment has me thinking of you as a thinly veiled MS fanboy!
I can't loose that feeling, especially when you quote:
*****
#1 is probably legally impractical. #3 is a pie-in-the-sky approach, just like
Linux and Wine were originally, and they (like mp3) have the additional
problem/feature of not supporting copy protection, which makes large
media companies skittish about offering content. Pragmatic US-based
Linux vendors might well consider option #2.
*****
The Linux communities strength is writing code!! Your offer of #2 option is throwing in the towel and giving in to Microsofts "Three E strategy" (Embrace, Extend, Extinguish)!!
Naw, lets see the "Patents" and either a) create a workaround or b) dispel the Patent FUD.
GPLv3 will put an end to MS' expansion attempt, since they offered "Coupons", that will indemnify ALL OSS from Microsofts "patents".
I bought a copy of "Lindows" just to support the effort, BUT now I'm going back to Mandrake/Mandriva, since they showed some BACKBONE AND UBUNTU/KUBUNTU will gather MY support too.
One thing is for sure, I wouldn't share a foxhole with dankegel, since I couldn't be sure to what side he belongs to!!
Sorry

Originally Posted by dankegel

It's true that codecs are a big issue on Linux.
There seem to be three kinds of responses to this problem:

1. Bundle old freely downloadable versions of the codecs
into an easy to download package, e.g. the K-Lite Codec Pack,
http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/#klmcodec
Sadly, some of the codecs, although freely downloadable from the
original vendors, have EULAs that prohibit such redistribution.

2. License current versions of codecs, and offer them for sale on Linux, e.g.
http://www.fluendo.com/

3. Avoid proprietary codecs that require patents, and create new, free codecs.
e.g.http://www.xiph.org, http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/dirac

#1 is probably legally impractical. #3 is a pie-in-the-sky approach, just like
Linux and Wine were originally, and they (like mp3) have the additional
problem/feature of not supporting copy protection, which makes large
media companies skittish about offering content. Pragmatic US-based
Linux vendors might well consider option #2.

But option #2 comes in two flavors:
a) Have a special company (e.g. Fluendo) do all the dealing with
the codec vendors.
b) Have the Linux vendors make direct deals with the codec vendors.

Linspire chose option b, at least for Windows Media Format.
The problem with this option is that it comes with strings attached,
some in the form of being seen as aiding and abetting Microsoft's
FUD campaign against Linux, some in the form of being simply
seen as being financially tied to Microsoft, who is known to be no
friend of Linux.

That said, I have qualms about firing up the flamethrower and
publicly denouncing those Linux vendors who have signed on
the dotted line with Microsoft, if only because such discord
in the Linux community plays into Microsoft's hands.

So, my fellow Linux enthusiasts, let our disapproval with such
deals be shown with quiet dignity, and let us
resolve to redouble our efforts to make Linux the best, the
most truly free desktop/server/embedded platform in the world.

[Linuxratty]

Originally Posted by dankegel

The problem with this option is that it comes with strings attached,
some in the form of being seen as aiding and abetting Microsoft's
FUD campaign against Linux, some in the form of being simply
seen as being financially tied to Microsoft, who is known to be no
friend of Linux.
.

And it's this very big elephant in the room that everyone keeps tip-toeing around.
This is not discussed because, as I see it,Microsoft has put a gag order over the Linux sheep in it's corral.
And unless there is a whistle-blower,we will never know the Truth about this deal.
And yes,we all know Microsoft wants the whole enchilada and does not play nice with others...Can a tiger change it's stripes? Not that Ive seen.
Do I trust Microsoft to do the right thing when it comes to Linux?
Quite honestly,no.
And yes,they can provide lots of goodies for Linux,it's the other things they are known for doing,and the FUD turds they keep flinging that troubles me.

[andy.w]

Originally Posted by RevMike

'Very Simple
Linspire's strategy has been a very simple one...build a Linux distribution with more capabilities for desktop computing than any other distro.'

Thanks Kevin - That's why I bought Linspire, that's why I'm waiting eagerly for LS 6.0

Mike

Spot on.

I agree with you 100%.

[devilears]

well said! I agree with you sentiments.

[Commander_Keen]

Hi Kevin.
Listen.. I believe your OS is violating some of my IP's.. but I will not show them to you. I believe since you have paid to the SCO for protection and you have now paid to MS for Protection. I believe you should be paying me at least $500,000 for Protection. and with this protection I will not sue you or your customers for IP violations on my IP's.. And while your at it.. I'm sure your violating RH, XBSD, & IBM.
so you should be paying them as well

[JDoyle]

Still no Linspire Letter meter?

JD

[radiojohn]

I've been following Linux ever since Linspire was "Lindows" and, yes, I have a treasured "Lindows" T-shirt tucked away somwhere. I've also been writiing tutorials for new PC users since DOS was big.

Why is this important to this discussion? Two reasons.

First, I've learned that, in order to expand an OS, it must be EASY to use.

CNR helps a lot, but there is more to do to remove Linux from the hands of the "gurus" who cannot explain how to make simple changes without resorting to command-line babble. This is not entirely their fault, Linux was literally "designed by a committee" and there are far too many strange terms to learn.

But equally important is the need for a WIDE range of DRIVERS. If your camera or printer or scanner or whatever won't work, then you won't use the OS.

I've installed a number of distros on PCs and couldn't even get the screen to display well with some of them! This is BASIC STUFF.

So you have three choices:

Wait for the world community of volunteers to make all the drivers anyone needs (not going to happen any time soon!)

-or- convince the makers of hardware to ALWAYS make a Linux driver, including older gear that is still in use (which will cost them a LOT of $$ and return very little, so no big incnetive there.)

-or- tap into an existing pool of drivers (past and present) from MS.

Yes, there are the purists who think this is a bad idea, somehow "giving in."

They also would like all the clothing stores to only sell unbelached cotten clothing made by workers who are receiving a living wage and are housed and fed well. A wonderful idea, but not going to happen until a LOT MORE people change their thinking.

So they can have there "pure" Linux distro and keep using their old inkjet printer and serial port Palm Pilot while those who have gotten drivers and code from "the dark side" are using the latest WiFi or whatever comes along.

I supposed it will be all driven by need. If you need the brand new latest, you go one way. If you need to simply do what Linux already does (and it does a lot) , you go the other.

But I'd like to see a lot more effort on making proper training materials and boosting the user friendly nature of Linux than wasting time on this debate.

[Petem]

Kevin... apart from your retoric... please answer this... do you believe linux to violate MS patents..? simply.. do you believe that the kernel violates any MS patents..? do you believe that open office violates MS patents..? or KDE...? or any of the other apps MS claims to violate their IP.. ? if you do.. could you please state why.. and your proof of this.. it is a simple request..


you do not seem to get it.. really.. no one is angry about you paying for using someone elses codecs... or paying to use someone else "LEGITAMATE IP" ... or even if you had stated that if you use linspire you can be assured that the codecs you are using are legally licenses.... what bother the community.. is your blessing AND YES is it a blessing of the MS's statement that linux as a whole violates their IP without a shred... now say that slowly.. W-I-T-H O-U-T A S-H-R-E-D of evidence to show..... agian i ask

"do you believe that the kernel violates any MS patents..? do you believe that open office violates MS patents..? or KDE...? or any of the other apps MS claims to violate their IP.. ? if you do.. could you please state why.. and your proof of this.."

[acspider60]

TSK TSK Kevin; As long as we are all clear that you are dancing with the devil. Consider the percentage of sales in dollars that you currently have in comparison with the rest of your chosen market and watch what happens over the next ten years. I can almost feel MS' legal tendrils slowly wrapping around your business. Sell out now and walk away. The Linspire model is clearly good enough for MS to have taken notice. Look at what happened to companies like VISIO. They were bought and swallowed. The only group MS will ever have loyalty to will be the group with voting shares of ownership in MS.
I have been in this business almost before there was a "personal computer", MS is no friend of yours or mine. I have watched and admired Linspire as the "little guy" for a while now and I wish you well. I actually installed XANDROS 4.0 last year for my son because it was the MS alternative. Linspire was the alternative before that and I installed three versions of that distro. I have Ubuntu running on several machines and I think until they go commercial I may just stay there.
I'll give you a secret. If it will not get my machine up and running with the good mass media basics for under 75.oo I will just move on. Let me add this thought. How long should we pay for the R&D that went into the source for the original build? Everything since then has just been an enhancement. Xandros Premium was pricey at that point. Now it will have the MS stigma attached to it and I wont go near it.
I don't want to get back doored or held hostage by some rule or alleged rights violation a year or two from now. I also believe that once I buy something it belongs to me and if I choose to burn it that is my choice. I have no interest in "leasing software" nor do I want to buy something that comes with restrictions on who and how it can be used that has nothing to do with the hardware it will run on. That sort of presumption has always been just simple arrogance.
Would you buy a house that came with restrictions on who could use it? Would you buy a car that had as many recalls as we have had patches in the past few years? This member of the silent majority has been voting for years...
Best of luck....

[Waldo]

Originally Posted by radiojohn

I've been following Linux ever since Linspire was "Lindows" and, yes, I have a treasured "Lindows" T-shirt tucked away somwhere. I've also been writiing tutorials for new PC users since DOS was big.

Why is this important to this discussion? Two reasons.

First, I've learned that, in order to expand an OS, it must be EASY to use.

CNR helps a lot, but there is more to do to remove Linux from the hands of the "gurus" who cannot explain how to make simple changes without resorting to command-line babble. This is not entirely their fault, Linux was literally "designed by a committee" and there are far too many strange terms to learn.

But equally important is the need for a WIDE range of DRIVERS. If your camera or printer or scanner or whatever won't work, then you won't use the OS.

I've installed a number of distros on PCs and couldn't even get the screen to display well with some of them! This is BASIC STUFF.

So you have three choices:

Wait for the world community of volunteers to make all the drivers anyone needs (not going to happen any time soon!)

-or- convince the makers of hardware to ALWAYS make a Linux driver, including older gear that is still in use (which will cost them a LOT of $$ and return very little, so no big incnetive there.)

-or- tap into an existing pool of drivers (past and present) from MS.

Yes, there are the purists who think this is a bad idea, somehow "giving in."

They also would like all the clothing stores to only sell unbelached cotten clothing made by workers who are receiving a living wage and are housed and fed well. A wonderful idea, but not going to happen until a LOT MORE people change their thinking.

So they can have there "pure" Linux distro and keep using their old inkjet printer and serial port Palm Pilot while those who have gotten drivers and code from "the dark side" are using the latest WiFi or whatever comes along.

I supposed it will be all driven by need. If you need the brand new latest, you go one way. If you need to simply do what Linux already does (and it does a lot) , you go the other.

But I'd like to see a lot more effort on making proper training materials and boosting the user friendly nature of Linux than wasting time on this debate.

Another sensible voice joins the debate. We can't allow this to continue. It could cause Microsoft to actually worrry about Linux, and then they will be less likely to make deals with upstart troublemakers like Kevin.

Waldo

[dankegel]

Originally Posted by northwolf

You know, your comment has me thinking of you as a thinly veiled MS fanboy! ...
The Linux communities strength is writing code!! Your offer of #2 option is throwing in the towel ...
One thing is for sure, I wouldn't share a foxhole with dankegel, since I couldn't be sure to what side he belongs to!!

Any doubts about which side I'm on should be dispelled by a quick
review of my reply to the DOJ settlement with Microsoft;
see http://kegel.com/remedy/

I much prefer option #3. I'm firmly on the all-Free side.
I spend most of my free time trying to improve Linux's market share.
My two main projects these days are Wine and Zumastor.

[xwisdom]

You know I had some thoughs about something similar. I've looked at the price for some Linux disros last year and saw that they where very close to the price of Windows XP Home and Pro versions. Then a thought came to mind why buy Linux at such a price when XP only cost a few dollars more and has all the things a user will need (media, dvd, windows software support, etc)?

With each package added on Linux is slowly being priced close to MS windows products until one day MS will say, Windows is cheaper than Linux! Windows has a lower TCO!

[JDoyle]

Originally Posted by xwisdom

With each package added on Linux is slowly being priced close to MS windows products until one day MS will say, Windows is cheaper than Linux! Windows has a lower TCO!

The vast majority of Linux distros are free (as in beer). *buntu, Mepis, Yoper, Fedora, PCLinuxOS, etc. A few are commercial, with a price tag, but they are the minority.

JD

[GuypronouncedGuy]

Originally Posted by radiojohn

I've been following Linux ever since Linspire was "Lindows" and, yes, I have a treasured "Lindows" T-shirt tucked away somwhere. I've also been writiing tutorials for new PC users since DOS was big.

Ah the poor shirt. I have mine as I too wholeheartedly supported the legal efforts against MicroSith. Now I am forced to use a fabric felt to add, "yet another victim of the monopoly, *sigh* " Well back to PCLOS and being a "pirate" I guess. Sorry Kevin, you're FUD isn't near as good as Bill's.

[ricegf1]

Originally Posted by radiojohn

I've been following Linux ever since Linspire was "Lindows"...

I've been using computers since 1978, and Linux (first Red Hat, then Mandrake) since 1999. I switched to Lindows 4.0 in Sept 2003. I gave my $100 to the lawsuit fund. I switched my production machine to Ubuntu in Sept 2005, but until recently ran Linspire on alternate machines.

Now that we've exchanged our creds...

But equally important is the need for a WIDE range of DRIVERS.

Agreed for self-installs. People who buy pre-installed Linux from Dell or HP or Frys or Walmart don't care, and that market is apparently taking off now. (A bigger issue is media codecs, of course, but that wasn't your point. :-)

...wait for the world community of volunteers to make all the drivers anyone needs (not going to happen any time soon!)

Here we sincerely disagree. I have had much *better* driver support for documented hardware built in to Linux than built in to Windows - Windows almost *always* requires a separate CD of drivers for each piece of hardware. (Even setting up Windows pre-installed on my wife's laptop took over 6 hours of CD swapping - first to "back up" Windows on 12 (!) CDs, then to install all of her apps and drivers.)

And it's very common for a new version of Windows (say it all together now, "Vista") to lack support for huge piles of older hardware. If you ask the hardware vendors for an updated driver, their response is very likely to be "Upgrade to our *new* hardware$$!".

Linux, on the other hand, has run with virtually all of my hardware (over hundreds of installs) almost entirely out of the box - not a driver CD in sight. This happy situation is exactly the result of "the world community of volunteers" and paid staff of IBM, Red Hat, etc. making almost "all the drivers anyone needs".

tap into an existing pool of drivers (past and present) from MS

Except that MS doesn't own or even deliver that code - the hardware vendors do. Your point isn't bad, but it apparently isn't addressed by the Microsoft-Linspire agreement. (Hard to be sure what's covered by these secret, under-the-table extortion payments, you know.)

The best approach IMHO to resolving the remaining driver issues (mostly limited now to wifi and accelerated graphics engines) is to politely pressure the hardware manufacturers to release technical specs so that "the world community of volunteers" and paid staff can whip those drivers out.

If there's one thing the free software community can do, it's write great code (thanks, Community!!! :-).

[ricegf1]

Originally Posted by xwisdom

I've looked at the price for some Linux disros last year and saw that they where very close to the price of Windows XP Home and Pro versions.

If you're getting Windows XP Home and Pro for free, my friend, you should realize that you're breaking the law and infringing on Microsoft's copyrights. Please clean up your act and pay Microsoft their $299 posthaste - or download a Linux distro or two from Distrowatch and enjoy the freedom! :-)

[subslug]

Originally Posted by xwisdom

Then a thought came to mind why buy Linux at such a price when XP only cost a few dollars more and has all the things a user will need (media, dvd, windows software support, etc)?

What version of XP are you using that comes with DVD support out of the box?

The fact that I had to rescue my Linspire newsletter from my Microsoft Outlook junkmail box must tell us something.

What it tells me is that while some folks like to talk the talk they really don't walk the walk.....when they push the power button on their PC they're greeted by the Microsoft splash screen.
What side of all of this are you on anyway?

[WirelessGuy]

As a long time Linspire Insider, I have like Kevin sat on the sidelines and watched all the media bash on itself and quote Lispire against Ubuntu.

I am not sure where Kevin is getting his direction from. Yes, the USA has certain laws pertaining to use of codecs, but those laws do not go beyond the borders. Does that mean he has determined that Linspire is a US only product? Piracy is people knowingly taking software and doing things with malicious intent in order to not provide revenue to the rightful owner. I do not consider me being able to watch my own DVD I purchased or rented from Blockbuster as Piracy. Companies claiming that just watching a movie via a codec violates the DMCA is just plain silly.

These laws were intended to protect people from theft not to provide them ultimate power to help keep people from using their own computer instead of leasing from an OS company.

Kevin, your point would only be valid if it wasn't for the fact that 90% of the OS out there who put codecs into the distro are community driven. Last time I checked, Linspire, Xandros and Novell are all commercial product offerings and are targets for MS to sue. So I understand your CYA by signing the dotted line, but don't try and sell it off to people as "building a better linux".

So yes, there is a crack in Linux right now, and people are standing on one side or the other. You decided to take your company on the side of commercial protection, but that is where your company has always been. This is why there are articles about how Linspire is not a true Linux, but rather a MS clone using the most convenient platform to do so.

I personal would advise you to stick to CNR.com, as I don't see many people spending $60 for protection against the boogeyman.

So, for those who are ready and willing to bash my comments, fire away. And if anyone is interested there is a Insider account for sale. Price? 1 codec license and a paper bag.

[The Code Stops Here]

I agree with you on #2 and #3 also.

Kevin Carmony speaks of taking the high ground and that is very admirable considering the ugly aspects of what is happening with computer technology these days.

I am an old school kind of person, I remember banging out code on an old atari keyboard, green screen and 5 1/4 inch floppy that was given to my Dad by someone he helped move. They were wealthy and played around with it and when it became boring to them they tossed them. I think there was a commodore 64 tossed in as well. I remember I had subscribed to a magazine where they shared code for different applications. You had to type in the code and it had to be perfect or the program would not work. Even after typing in the code sometimes it wouldn't work, and I would have to go back and figure out where a typo was made in the magazine, but I would always get the programs to work. This was in the mid seventies, around the same time the Gates geek crew was banging code in their garages.

Years ago geeky coders loved to share the little things they had discovered with others. It was a sense of pride and accomplishment. Then came Bill Gates, an enterprising opportunist. He took all the things that others had freely shared with him and exploited them to become the person he is now. Gates didn't take the high road, no. He walked a road straight into the depths of hell by strangling the joy of sharing new technology with other geeks.

This is why I have always been attracted to the Linux platform, not because it is the free platform, or the so-called geek platform. Linux has the spirit of every geeky kid banging out code in their garage on an old atari. There was nothing like the expectation of seeing too thin lines come alive as paddles and one dot as a ball and hitting it back and forth for hours. While pretty elemental to anyone these days it was something to be excited about then, and it still had an appeal today.

The problem with this whole technology thing today, is greed, it's the gold rush of the age. Bill Gates and Microsoft survived a big crash just a while back because they helped to create it. Microsoft knows that they are a monopoly and the trial a few years back was a travesty of justice. Basically Microsoft was slapped in the hand and allowed to go back to business as usual. I love it when Gates claims to be so generous in his charities, nothing more than tax write offs. The Microsoft corporation continues to pass off trash at an exorbitant price mainly because they have no high morals. The product is crap and nobody can fix it, even Microsoft, yet they get away with promoting it and selling it. The sad part is that vendors drag on their coattails like kids seeking candy.

Years ago Microsoft employees were laughing at the Linux crowd, calling us geeks with no promise. I know I was called that several times, but if the truth be known they probably were using a Linux system on the sly. Somewhere along the line, pride overcame the free sense of discovery, and one coder started thinking they were better than the other because they discovered that if they linked a certain strain of type they could get the machine to do something new. I still get a joy out of putting something together in code and don't mind sharing it. Although lately I have been more busy with just living.

Linus Torvald took the high road years ago by allowing other geeks to share freely in his innovations of software. Not only that but allowing them to improve on it as well or adapting it to fit what they needed to do on their own specific machine. Now that is the epitome of humility. Something opposite of the other side, namely Microsoft and some others.

What operating system ended up on the $100 dollar computer program? I don't think it was a MS Windows system, something that should have been given a high priority considering the comment by Gates that he wants to have every person own a computer. I say the only reason Gates seeks that desire is because of wealth and greed. The $100 computer initiative gave MS every opportunity to make that statement come true yet Linux had to bail that program out, and thankfully so. The disadvantaged individuals probably would have put it to the side using an MS system because of the frustration of using it.

I think Microsoft has seen a serious threat in Linux in the past 5 years as their sales are dwindling due to the constant delay on their promises of delivering an operating system loaded with bugs that the consumer has to pay for without the bug spray. I am very dubious that any collaboration with Microsoft may spell doom for the true spirit of Linux programs. I see it like the "Terminator" movies from years back, where the Linux programmers will be fighting to survive underground against a humongous non-spirited machine that took one simple creative idea that could have helped humanity but yet started the destruction of humanity.

Let us not forget that years after the Jules Verne thoughts of moon exploration and space travel it was reality. Movies like the "Terminator" series or even "I robot" should remind us about the devious nature of some in this line of technology.

I say we keep "free" exactly what it should be, free. If Microsoft wants to be a part of it, keep them on the outside looking in. By this I mean if I want to incorporate a program from Microsoft then let it be a seperate entity that is attached and not a part of, so that once I no longer have a use for it, I can toss it.

The other thing that really burns me is that patent attorneys have been slinging around crap for several years now. The simple idea is this, I can create a mouse trap and have it patented. I can sell that mousetrap as I have designed it under that patent and it's all mine. Here is the kicker though, if someone comes along and sees a way to improve my mousetrap even if they use some of my initial design, they are entitled to their own patent legally and can distribute their design without compensating me. Then someone else can come along and improve their design as well and receive a separate patent, and so on, and so on. The truth is this, Microsoft has been doing that very thing for years, and then they have the nerve to come back to the original designer and claim that they have been breached. It's just hilarious.

Okay enough of this.

Sincerely,

The Code Stops Here

[The Code Stops Here]

Hear, Hear!!

Sincerely,

The Code Stops Here

[subslug]

Originally Posted by WirelessGuy

I do not consider me being able to watch my own DVD I purchased or rented from Blockbuster as Piracy. Companies claiming that just watching a movie via a codec violates the DMCA is just plain silly.

While I agree that it seems silly, companies like Linspire aren't allowed to choose which laws they feel like following and which ones just don't make sense.....being a for profit, US based company they are expected to follow all of the rules.

Just like with driving laws, you're expected to stop for all the stop signs, not just the ones in busy intersections.

If you're somehow watching that rented DVD without having paid for the codecs to do so and live in a country that has rules against piracy then you actually are viewed in their eyes as a pirate.